Narrated circumcision of a newborn baby.

[j***@gmail.com]

Narrated circumcision of a newborn baby. Difficult to hear the doctor over the baby's wailing.

[Casaman]

Post by j***@gmail.com
http://youtu.be/W2PKdDOjooA
Narrated circumcision of a newborn baby. Difficult to hear the doctor over the baby's wailing.

If it is difficult to hear why do you not use a more typical narration where the baby is quiet? My son hardly reacted at all when was circumcised. Actually he wailed a lot louder when his nappy was changed and he seemed to wail loudest for no reason at all! In the West these days almost all circumcisions are done with anaesthetics. Anyway Jack do you not think that some discomfort is a small price to pay for a lifetime of benefits? I do and my son does and my grandsons will be circumcised too.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Casaman

Post by j***@gmail.com
http://youtu.be/W2PKdDOjooA
Narrated circumcision of a newborn baby. Difficult to hear the doctor over the baby's wailing.

If it is difficult to hear why do you not use a more typical narration where the baby is quiet? My son hardly reacted at all when was circumcised. Actually he wailed a lot louder when his nappy was changed and he seemed to wail loudest for no reason at all! In the West these days almost all circumcisions are done with anaesthetics. Anyway Jack do you not think that some discomfort is a small price to pay for a lifetime of benefits? I do and my son does and my grandsons will be circumcised too.

1) This circumcision IS performed under anesthesia.
2) Having part of one's penis cut of does not constitute "some discomfort."
3) One of the reasons that infant "don't react" is that they are traumatized beyond the point of being able to react.

[Uckister777@....]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Casaman
If it is difficult to hear why do you not use a more typical narration where the baby is quiet? My son hardly reacted at all when was circumcised. Actually he wailed a lot louder when his nappy was changed and he seemed to wail loudest for no reason at all! In the West these days almost all circumcisions are done with anaesthetics. Anyway Jack do you not think that some discomfort is a small price to pay for a lifetime of benefits? I do and my son does and my grandsons will be circumcised too.

1) This circumcision IS performed under anesthesia.
2) Having part of one's penis cut of does not constitute "some discomfort."
3) One of the reasons that infant "don't react" is that they are traumatized beyond the point of being able to react.

Oh, so if they do react, it's because they are traumatized, and if they don't react, it's because they are traumatized. Uh huh.

Don't be so deliberately obtuse, Jack.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Casaman
If it is difficult to hear why do you not use a more typical narration where the baby is quiet? My son hardly reacted at all when was circumcised. Actually he wailed a lot louder when his nappy was changed and he seemed to wail loudest for no reason at all! In the West these days almost all circumcisions are done with anaesthetics. Anyway Jack do you not think that some discomfort is a small price to pay for a lifetime of benefits? I do and my son does and my grandsons will be circumcised too.

1) This circumcision IS performed under anesthesia.
2) Having part of one's penis cut of does not constitute "some discomfort."
3) One of the reasons that infant "don't react" is that they are traumatized beyond the point of being able to react.

Oh, so if they do react, it's because they are traumatized, and if they don't react, it's because they are traumatized. Uh huh.
Don't be so deliberately obtuse, Jack.

Clinical tests show the infant's stress hormones quadruple during an anesthetized circumcision.

You think that having part of the penis cut off is not all that painful--doesn't this conflict with common sense in your mind?

[Uckister777@....]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Casaman
If it is difficult to hear why do you not use a more typical narration where the baby is quiet? My son hardly reacted at all when was circumcised. Actually he wailed a lot louder when his nappy was changed and he seemed to wail loudest for no reason at all! In the West these days almost all circumcisions are done with anaesthetics. Anyway Jack do you not think that some discomfort is a small price to pay for a lifetime of benefits? I do and my son does and my grandsons will be circumcised too.

1) This circumcision IS performed under anesthesia.
2) Having part of one's penis cut of does not constitute "some discomfort."
3) One of the reasons that infant "don't react" is that they are traumatized beyond the point of being able to react.

Oh, so if they do react, it's because they are traumatized, and if they don't react, it's because they are traumatized. Uh huh.
Don't be so deliberately obtuse, Jack.

Clinical tests show the infant's stress hormones quadruple during an anesthetized circumcision.

Everybody's stress hormones go up during any surgery. I've never heard that given as a reason not to have any other surgery. Can't you think of a better argument?

Incidentally infants' stress hormones can go up in all kinds of situations including an adult entering or leaving the room, first taste of a new food, vaccinations, loud noises, etc. So what?

Post by j***@gmail.com
You think that having part of the penis cut off is not all that painful--doesn't this conflict with >common sense in your mind?

Of course it can be painful. That's why anesthetics are usually used. If you are properly anesthetized for circumcision or any other surgical procedure you don't feel or recollect the pain. So with anesthetics the pain doesn't matter, DUH.

Incidentally anesthetics are a recent invention. But that has never stopped circumcision being the most popular surgery in the world throughout history up the present day has it?

Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Casaman
If it is difficult to hear why do you not use a more typical narration where the baby is quiet? My son hardly reacted at all when was circumcised. Actually he wailed a lot louder when his nappy was changed and he seemed to wail loudest for no reason at all! In the West these days almost all circumcisions are done with anaesthetics. Anyway Jack do you not think that some discomfort is a small price to pay for a lifetime of benefits? I do and my son does and my grandsons will be circumcised too.

1) This circumcision IS performed under anesthesia.
2) Having part of one's penis cut of does not constitute "some discomfort."
3) One of the reasons that infant "don't react" is that they are traumatized beyond the point of being able to react.

Oh, so if they do react, it's because they are traumatized, and if they don't react, it's because they are traumatized. Uh huh.
Don't be so deliberately obtuse, Jack.

Clinical tests show the infant's stress hormones quadruple during an anesthetized circumcision.

Everybody's stress hormones go up during any surgery. I've never heard that given as a reason not to have any other surgery.

The degree of physical stress is certainly a factor in determining the advisability of surgery in infants, children, the elderly, people with contraindicating conditions, and pregnant women.

Post by ***@....
Can't you think of a better argument?
Incidentally infants' stress hormones can go up in all kinds of situations including an adult entering or leaving the room, first taste of a new food, vaccinations, loud noises, etc. So what?>

Post by j***@gmail.com
You think that having part of the penis cut off is not all that painful--doesn't this conflict with >common sense in your mind?

Of course it can be painful. That's why anesthetics are usually used. If you are properly anesthetized for circumcision or any other surgical procedure you don't feel or recollect the pain. So with anesthetics the pain doesn't matter, DUH.

There is no reason to believe that the dorsal penile nerve block is sufficient.

Post by ***@....
Incidentally anesthetics are a recent invention. But that has never stopped circumcision being the most popular surgery in the world throughout history up the present day has it?
Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?

Infants don't want penis surgery.

[Uckister777@....]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?

Infants don't want penis surgery.

Jack I don't think you can answer the question and no doubt you will evade it once more but let me try again.
"Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
I'm not looking for you to change the subject or answer a different question. This is the question:
WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"

[Casaman]

Uckister I asked Jack the very same question several months ago but he could not come up with an answer. He cannot give a straight reply because he would have to admit that societies dislike foreskins so much they want to cut them off....and that will lead inevitably to why they want to take this step....and that will lead to issues of smell and appearance and physical problems and disease....and Jack does not want to go there. So he will not answer our question....

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Casaman
Uckister I asked Jack the very same question several months ago but he could not come up with an answer. He cannot give a straight reply because he would have to admit that societies dislike foreskins so much they want to cut them off....and that will lead inevitably to why they want to take this step....and that will lead to issues of smell and appearance and physical problems and disease....and Jack does not want to go there. So he will not answer our question....

If people were making appointments to have their foreskins removed, you'd have a point. But only about one in a thousand people choose to have that done.

So a better question is: why do so few people choose to have their foreskins cut off?

[Parker]

Post by j***@gmail.com
So a better question is: why do so few people choose to have their foreskins cut off?

That's not a better question, it's a dumb question with an obvious answer.

For most grown ups circumcision is elective surgery. But
*It costs money
*it might hurt
*the outcome may seem uncertain
so they usually don't do it even if they'd rather not have a foreskin.

It's the same with bald men. They can get a hair transplant. But
*it costs money
*it might hurt
*they are unsure of the results
So they usually don't do it even though they would much rather have a full head of hair.


It's the same with women who think they are too fat. There's an elective surgery for liposuction but
*it costs money
*it might hurt
*the result might be seem uncertain.
So they usually don't do it even though they would rather be thinner.


If any of these procedures was simple and free and painless with quick certain results, you wouldn't see too many bald men, fat women, or uncircumcised cocks.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
So a better question is: why do so few people choose to have their foreskins cut off?

That's not a better question, it's a dumb question with an obvious answer.
For most grown ups circumcision is elective surgery. But
*It costs money
*it might hurt
*the outcome may seem uncertain
so they usually don't do it even if they'd rather not have a foreskin.
It's the same with bald men. They can get a hair transplant. But
*it costs money
*it might hurt
*they are unsure of the results
So they usually don't do it even though they would much rather have a full head of hair.
It's the same with women who think they are too fat. There's an elective surgery for liposuction but
*it costs money
*it might hurt
*the result might be seem uncertain.
So they usually don't do it even though they would rather be thinner.
If any of these procedures was simple and free and painless with quick certain results, you wouldn't see too many bald men, fat women, or uncircumcised cocks.

Circumcising children is not free, certainly not painless, and the results are not certain--complications are more common than you might think.

As with Uck, you're not interested in a discussion--you want to fight, it's about your ego, you want to insult someone. You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.

[Parker]

Post by j***@gmail.com
As with Uck, you're not interested in a discussion

Actually you asked a question about circumcising adults and I gave a detailed reply. You completely ignored it and changed the subject to circumcising children. So it's actually you who can't sustain a discussion.

Post by j***@gmail.com
--you want to fight, it's about your ego, you want to >insult someone.

That's a bit rich coming from YOU! As somebody pointed out here I think last year, you love to throw out insults to complete strangers but as soon as somebody gives you a taste of your medicine you collapse into a heap of self pity. Another typical alcoholic characteristic by the way. Aggressive one minute, maudlin the next, depending on how much you've drunk. I worked behind a bar for eight yrs. I know you people inside out, Jack.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
As with Uck, you're not interested in a discussion

Actually you asked a question about circumcising adults and I gave a detailed reply. You completely ignored it and changed the subject to circumcising children. So it's actually you who can't sustain a discussion.

Post by j***@gmail.com
--you want to fight, it's about your ego, you want to >insult someone.

That's a bit rich coming from YOU! As somebody pointed out here I think last year, you love to throw out insults to complete strangers but as soon as somebody gives you a taste of your medicine you collapse into a heap of self pity. Another typical alcoholic characteristic by the way. Aggressive one minute, maudlin the next, depending on how much you've drunk. I worked behind a bar for eight yrs. I know you people inside out, Jack.

I represent something for you. I represent some enemy you've conceptualized.

[Parker]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
As with Uck, you're not interested in a discussion

Actually you asked a question about circumcising adults and I gave a detailed reply. You completely ignored it and changed the subject to circumcising children. So it's actually you who can't sustain a discussion.

Post by j***@gmail.com
--you want to fight, it's about your ego, you want to >insult someone.

That's a bit rich coming from YOU! As somebody pointed out here I think last year, you love to throw out insults to complete strangers but as soon as somebody gives you a taste of your medicine you collapse into a heap of self pity. Another typical alcoholic characteristic by the way. Aggressive one minute, maudlin the next, depending on how much you've drunk. I worked behind a bar for eight yrs. I know you people inside out, Jack.

I represent something for you. I represent some enemy you've conceptualized.

LOL you don't represent anything to me except yourself! Mate you've admitted here that you're a drunk and a pothead. You show contempt for other people, you call gays "pansies" and women "pussy" and you put down east Africans struggling with disease and poverty, You insult people and are really smug about it until somebody insults you, then you practically burst into tears and cry foul. You are dishonest in debate always changing tack when you get cornered. Some time when you are sober just take a look at all your responses in this thread and sees what an arse you've made of yourself. I don't see you as an enemy Jacko, I just feel sorry for you and hope you get sober one day. There's prob a nice guy in there under that heap of shit you've covered yourself with. I have total respect for alcoholics who stop drinking. Good luck mate.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
As with Uck, you're not interested in a discussion

Actually you asked a question about circumcising adults and I gave a detailed reply. You completely ignored it and changed the subject to circumcising children. So it's actually you who can't sustain a discussion.

Post by j***@gmail.com
--you want to fight, it's about your ego, you want to >insult someone.

That's a bit rich coming from YOU! As somebody pointed out here I think last year, you love to throw out insults to complete strangers but as soon as somebody gives you a taste of your medicine you collapse into a heap of self pity. Another typical alcoholic characteristic by the way. Aggressive one minute, maudlin the next, depending on how much you've drunk. I worked behind a bar for eight yrs. I know you people inside out, Jack.

I represent something for you. I represent some enemy you've conceptualized.

LOL you don't represent anything to me except yourself! Mate you've admitted here that you're a drunk and a pothead. You show contempt for other people, you call gays "pansies" and women "pussy" and you put down east Africans struggling with disease and poverty, You insult people and are really smug about it until somebody insults you, then you practically burst into tears and cry foul. You are dishonest in debate always changing tack when you get cornered. Some time when you are sober just take a look at all your responses in this thread and sees what an arse you've made of yourself. I don't see you as an enemy Jacko, I just feel sorry for you and hope you get sober one day. There's prob a nice guy in there under that heap of shit you've covered yourself with. I have total respect for alcoholics who stop drinking. Good luck mate.
You were raised in an alcoholic household.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
As with Uck, you're not interested in a discussion

Actually you asked a question about circumcising adults and I gave a detailed reply. You completely ignored it and changed the subject to circumcising children. So it's actually you who can't sustain a discussion.

Post by j***@gmail.com
--you want to fight, it's about your ego, you want to >insult someone.

That's a bit rich coming from YOU! As somebody pointed out here I think last year, you love to throw out insults to complete strangers but as soon as somebody gives you a taste of your medicine you collapse into a heap of self pity. Another typical alcoholic characteristic by the way. Aggressive one minute, maudlin the next, depending on how much you've drunk. I worked behind a bar for eight yrs. I know you people inside out, Jack.

I represent something for you. I represent some enemy you've conceptualized.

LOL you don't represent anything to me except yourself! Mate you've admitted here that you're a drunk and a pothead. You show contempt for other people, you call gays "pansies" and women "pussy" and you put down east Africans struggling with disease and poverty, You insult people and are really smug about it until somebody insults you, then you practically burst into tears and cry foul. You are dishonest in debate always changing tack when you get cornered. Some time when you are sober just take a look at all your responses in this thread and sees what an arse you've made of yourself. I don't see you as an enemy Jacko, I just feel sorry for you and hope you get sober one day. There's prob a nice guy in there under that heap of shit you've covered yourself with. I have total respect for alcoholics who stop drinking. Good luck mate.
Of course--Don Quixote! That's you!

[saurabh suryavanshi]

Are you circumcised?

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

[saurabh]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

From your posts, it seems you're uncut because you're the only one in the group who has been challenging the practice of circumcision despite the fact that many are ridiculing you and trying to prove that you're insane!

I am not judging you and I'd like to know more about your views on this topic. I'll be very happy if we can do this in private.

[Uckister777@....]

Post by saurabh

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

From your posts, it seems you're uncut because you're the only one in the group who has been challenging the practice of circumcision despite the fact that many are ridiculing you and trying to prove that you're insane!
I am not judging you and I'd like to know more about your views on this topic. I'll be very happy if we can do this in private.

Actually he's circumcised and doesn't know anything about foreskins. Nobody here ever tried to prove he's insane. He's an alcoholic and pothead which he admits and he often posts here drunk which is obvious. Also if you look closely at his responses in this thread, he uses dishonest evasions when he doesn't want to answer a straight question. Good luck having private chats with him because he might be under the influence half the time!

[saurabh]

Post by ***@....

Post by saurabh

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

From your posts, it seems you're uncut because you're the only one in the group who has been challenging the practice of circumcision despite the fact that many are ridiculing you and trying to prove that you're insane!
I am not judging you and I'd like to know more about your views on this topic. I'll be very happy if we can do this in private.

Actually he's circumcised and doesn't know anything about foreskins. Nobody here ever tried to prove he's insane. He's an alcoholic and pothead which he admits and he often posts here drunk which is obvious. Also if you look closely at his responses in this thread, he uses dishonest evasions when he doesn't want to answer a straight question. Good luck having private chats with him because he might be under the influence half the time!

Dear Uckister777,

Thank you for your information. I was unaware of this fact. Actually I asked him to inbox me because I wanted his view on circ because he seems to have some issues with it and which I was curious to know.

What about you? Are you circd? And can you chat with me about it? Where are you from?

Thanks

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by saurabh

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

From your posts, it seems you're uncut because you're the only one in the group who has been challenging the practice of circumcision despite the fact that many are ridiculing you and trying to prove that you're insane!
I am not judging you and I'd like to know more about your views on this topic. I'll be very happy if we can do this in private.

My view of circumcision is simple: Anyone who wants some or all of his or her genitalia removed should be free to do so--indeed, who could stop him? This non-problem problem. What more is there to discuss? Doing it to other people is clearly wrong. It's impossible to stop people from doing it to themselves. It's like someone getting a butterfly tattoo on the small of her back--there's just no reasoning with some people.

Btw, what's your first language, S? Just curious.

[S]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

From your posts, it seems you're uncut because you're the only one in the group who has been challenging the practice of circumcision despite the fact that many are ridiculing you and trying to prove that you're insane!
I am not judging you and I'd like to know more about your views on this topic. I'll be very happy if we can do this in private.

My view of circumcision is simple: Anyone who wants some or all of his or her genitalia removed should be free to do so--indeed, who could stop him? This non-problem problem. What more is there to discuss? Doing it to other people is clearly wrong. It's impossible to stop people from doing it to themselves. It's like someone getting a butterfly tattoo on the small of her back--there's just no reasoning with some people.
Btw, what's your first language, S? Just curious.

My first language is Marathi but I speak Hindi fluently as well. Are you American? The acceptability of circ by the American society has baffled me. Here, it distinguishes the Muslims from Non-Muslims and Non-Muslims don't consider it even to cure phimosis. If at all they have to do it, they don't tell anyone about it and cover their dicks in the urinals.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by S

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by saurabh suryavanshi
Are you circumcised?

What do you think?

From your posts, it seems you're uncut because you're the only one in the group who has been challenging the practice of circumcision despite the fact that many are ridiculing you and trying to prove that you're insane!
I am not judging you and I'd like to know more about your views on this topic. I'll be very happy if we can do this in private.

My view of circumcision is simple: Anyone who wants some or all of his or her genitalia removed should be free to do so--indeed, who could stop him? This non-problem problem. What more is there to discuss? Doing it to other people is clearly wrong. It's impossible to stop people from doing it to themselves. It's like someone getting a butterfly tattoo on the small of her back--there's just no reasoning with some people.
Btw, what's your first language, S? Just curious.

My first language is Marathi but I speak Hindi fluently as well. Are you American? The acceptability of circ by the American society has baffled me. Here, it distinguishes the Muslims from Non-Muslims and Non-Muslims don't consider it even to cure phimosis. If at all they have to do it, they don't tell anyone about it and cover their dicks in the urinals.

There was no peer reviewed data produced in favor of infant circumcision until 1986 when Wiswell published an article linking circumcision to a reduced risk of urinary tract infections. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3725505

So, infant circumcision has been widespread in the US for decades prior to the production of the medical reasons put forth today.

If parents will do this to their children with or without (a supposed) medical basis, then why did it take hold?

The reasons for circumcision in America are varied and complicated and have changed over time. Books have been written on the matter and there is certainly no simple answer.

One function of circumcision in this country is as a social class marker. At least it was. It distinguished the good clean middle and upper classes from the dirty degenerate dangerous immigrants turn of the last century--Italians, Irish, Germans.

But at this point, in 2014, the practice has been adopted over several generations and has become a non-issue for most people--they do it to their children because "that's just what you do."

Although the old concept of genitalia as being dirty, gross, etc. remains--and circumcision is a way to make your son "cleaner."

(Btw, I'm quite pleased with myself for identifying your English as not-quite-Western. A friend of mine is from Kolkata but she learned to read and write in English before Bengali.)

[Casaman]

Le dimanche 2 mars 2014 15:10:17 UTC, ***@gmail.com a écrit :
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.

Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by j***@gmail.com
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.
Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

I like perilous territory.

[S]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.
Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

I like perilous territory.

Jack,


I learned to read and write English before Hindi and even today, I find it difficult to read Hindi let alone write it. I just speak with my friends in Hindi but everything I read and write is in English.


Is it true that the circ rate stands at a meagre 55% in the USA today? If it is, then why does everyone say that it's very common in the USA and that they've never seen or known anyone who isn't cut?

A lot of people say that circ rates haven't changed much over the last couple of decades but it's just that a lot of people simply choose to get it done in the doctor's office or by a mohel especially if their insurance doesn't cover it. This is why the official data which just records hospital circs shows that the rates have been declining.

Can you explain what you mean by "Btw, I'm quite pleased with myself for identifying your English as not-quite-Western." Does this mean my English isn't good enough or that it has an Indian tinge to it?


Thanks,
S

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by S

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.
Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

I like perilous territory.

Jack,
I learned to read and write English before Hindi and even today, I find it difficult to read Hindi let alone write it. I just speak with my friends in Hindi but everything I read and write is in English.
Is it true that the circ rate stands at a meagre 55% in the USA today? If it is, then why does everyone say that it's very common in the USA and that they've never seen or known anyone who isn't cut?
A lot of people say that circ rates haven't changed much over the last couple of decades but it's just that a lot of people simply choose to get it done in the doctor's office or by a mohel especially if their insurance doesn't cover it. This is why the official data which just records hospital circs shows that the rates have been declining.
Can you explain what you mean by "Btw, I'm quite pleased with myself for identifying your English as not-quite-Western." Does this mean my English isn't good enough or that it has an Indian tinge to it?
Thanks,
S

Your English is very good. Better than Parker's or Uckster's. Most American- or British-English speakers would never have noticed the difference.

I'll respond to your other questions later. Right now I am cooking carrot soup and making strawberry ice cream.

[S]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by S

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.
Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

I like perilous territory.

Jack,
I learned to read and write English before Hindi and even today, I find it difficult to read Hindi let alone write it. I just speak with my friends in Hindi but everything I read and write is in English.
Is it true that the circ rate stands at a meagre 55% in the USA today? If it is, then why does everyone say that it's very common in the USA and that they've never seen or known anyone who isn't cut?
A lot of people say that circ rates haven't changed much over the last couple of decades but it's just that a lot of people simply choose to get it done in the doctor's office or by a mohel especially if their insurance doesn't cover it. This is why the official data which just records hospital circs shows that the rates have been declining.
Can you explain what you mean by "Btw, I'm quite pleased with myself for identifying your English as not-quite-Western." Does this mean my English isn't good enough or that it has an Indian tinge to it?
Thanks,
S

Your English is very good. Better than Parker's or Uckster's. Most American- or British-English speakers would never have noticed the difference.
I'll respond to your other questions later. Right now I am cooking carrot soup and making strawberry ice cream.

Ok but how did you recognise my English as non-Western?

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by S

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by S

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.
Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

I like perilous territory.

Jack,
I learned to read and write English before Hindi and even today, I find it difficult to read Hindi let alone write it. I just speak with my friends in Hindi but everything I read and write is in English.
Is it true that the circ rate stands at a meagre 55% in the USA today? If it is, then why does everyone say that it's very common in the USA and that they've never seen or known anyone who isn't cut?
A lot of people say that circ rates haven't changed much over the last couple of decades but it's just that a lot of people simply choose to get it done in the doctor's office or by a mohel especially if their insurance doesn't cover it. This is why the official data which just records hospital circs shows that the rates have been declining.
Can you explain what you mean by "Btw, I'm quite pleased with myself for identifying your English as not-quite-Western." Does this mean my English isn't good enough or that it has an Indian tinge to it?
Thanks,
S

Your English is very good. Better than Parker's or Uckster's. Most American- or British-English speakers would never have noticed the difference.
I'll respond to your other questions later. Right now I am cooking carrot soup and making strawberry ice cream.

Ok but how did you recognise my English as non-Western?

I'm not sure. I hang out with speakers of Indian English on a daily basis. It wasn't a matter of grammatical errors, because you don't make many. I suppose it was more a matter of attitude, tone, voice, style of discourse. That sort of thing.

And to stay on topic. . .

Early you raised this question: "Is it true that the circ rate stands at a meagre 55% in the USA today? If it is, then why does everyone say that it's very common in the USA and that they've never seen or known anyone who isn't cut?"

I don't have any good statistics on that matter to share with you. But keep in mind that if circumcision rates have fallen over the past several decades (I believe the rate hit a high around 1975), then that demographic is now the 30, 40, 50 year old folks who have no experience with an unaltered penis.

Also, circumcision rates not only vary by age, but also vary by nationality (we are still a nation of immigrants), geography, and race. So even if nation wide rates are relatively low, some people inhabit communities where the rates remain high. And these may be the most vocal people on the matter--for everyone else it's simply not an issue, so why even talk about it?

[S]

Jack,

Which part of America are you from? Is it true that most Whites still continue to circ?

I sent you a private message a few days ago and have been anticipating your reply. Please check your inbox if you haven't. If you don't use that id then please furnish me with the one that you use regularly. Or if you don't want to make it public to avoid spamming, then you can mail me. Please be aware that everything you share with me will remain completely confidential.

S

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by S
Jack,
Which part of America are you from? Is it true that most Whites still continue to circ?

I would guess that currently the percentage of white American parents of male infants who choose to have those infants circumcised is greater than 50 percent.

Again, I don't have numbers. I don't even know who is considered the "authority" on such a statistic.

I'm from East of the Mississippi, West of the Atlantic.

[S]

Jack,

In fact circ rates have remained constant for 3 decades. The decline since 1978 is only marginal. It was 65% in the late 70's and it's 58.5% now. It reached a high of 95% in the 60's but decreased in the early 70's.

In most of the areas, the rates have remained the same except in the Western states where it declined from 60% in the 70's to 30% in the 80's. This has resulted in an overall decline in the average rates.

This decline is most probably due to the rising influx of migrants who almost never circ. It's a fact that minority births have exceeded White births and this is most evident in the Western states where the proportion minority births is even higher.

So this implies that most Whites still continue to circ as is evident by the trend in the Midwestern states which is predominantly White and the rates have been at 80-85% since the 70's.

S

[S]

Jack,

Which part of America are you from? Is it true that most Whites still continue to circ?

I sent you a private message a few days ago and have been anticipating your reply. Please check your inbox if you haven't. If you don't use that id then please furnish me with the one that you use regularly. Or if you don't want to make it public to avoid spamming, then you can mail me. Please be aware that everything you share with me will remain completely confidential.

S

[Parker]

Post by j***@gmail.com
You have some sneeking suspicions that maybe it wasn't such a wonderful thing to have part of your penis cut off. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay.
Jack I think you venture into perilous territory when you start pseudopsychologizing your debating opponents. I could equally come up with some explanation for your behavior here, e.g. "You have some sneaking suspicions that it was a wonderful thing your parents cut your foreskin off, and that your resentment toward them is unjustified. And attacking people who support this suspicion is one way to keep it at bay."

Fair enough Casaman but my take on this arsehole is that he's got a tiny dick and thinks it would have looked longer if his parents hadn't had him circumcised.

[Casaman]

Post by j***@gmail.com
So a better question is: why do so few people choose to have their foreskins cut off?

It's not really a better question. As Uckister says, it's like asking why so few people choose to have other forms of cosmetic surgery. It's not that they would not like the result, of being slimmer or losing wrinkles or having more hair. They would surely like the result but they don't want to go through the cost and trouble of getting it done.If removing fat,foreskins, baldness and wrinkles could be accomplished painlessly in ten seconds for ten euros, a great many people would have it done! So there's really no mystery there.

The interesting question (to repeat it yet again!)is why so many peoples all over the world all through history should independently come to the conclusion that men are better off without foreskins. Bear in mind that for most of that time it must have been a painful experience as they had no anaesthetics. Also it must have been very dangerous as they had no antibiotics. In most peoples circumcision occurred in adolescence so the lads knew what it was like with and without a foresksin. Despite all the risks they cirucmcised their sons the same way generation after generation, always making cirucmcision the most common form of surgery on earth which it is even today. That is a very, very remarkable thing and it needs explanation.

Now Jack, you have been asked I think nine times to answer THAT question but you have dodged it every time. I do not usually like to go into I-told-you-so mode but actually I did predict it:

"I asked Jack the very same question several months ago but he could not come up with an answer. He cannot give a straight reply because he would have to admit that societies dislike foreskins so much they want to cut them off....and that will lead inevitably to why they want to take this step....and that will lead to issues of smell and appearance and physical problems and disease....and Jack does not want to go there. So he will not answer our question...."

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Casaman

Post by j***@gmail.com
So a better question is: why do so few people choose to have their foreskins cut off?

It's not really a better question. As Uckister says, it's like asking why so few people choose to have other forms of cosmetic surgery. It's not that they would not like the result, of being slimmer or losing wrinkles or having more hair. They would surely like the result but they don't want to go through the cost and trouble of getting it done.If removing fat,foreskins, baldness and wrinkles could be accomplished painlessly in ten seconds for ten euros, a great many people would have it done! So there's really no mystery there.
The interesting question (to repeat it yet again!)is why so many peoples all over the world all through history should independently come to the conclusion that men are better off without foreskins. Bear in mind that for most of that time it must have been a painful experience as they had no anaesthetics. Also it must have been very dangerous as they had no antibiotics. In most peoples circumcision occurred in adolescence so the lads knew what it was like with and without a foresksin. Despite all the risks they cirucmcised their sons the same way generation after generation, always making cirucmcision the most common form of surgery on earth which it is even today. That is a very, very remarkable thing and it needs explanation.
"I asked Jack the very same question several months ago but he could not come up with an answer. He cannot give a straight reply because he would have to admit that societies dislike foreskins so much they want to cut them off....and that will lead inevitably to why they want to take this step....and that will lead to issues of smell and appearance and physical problems and disease....and Jack does not want to go there. So he will not answer our question...."

You seem to be looking for a short simple answer to a complicated question, a question which has been the subject of full-length books. You're right--I won't provide such a definitive answer as parker aka uckster ("It's gross.") but I've certainly talked about some of my thoughts on why people circumcise their children in this forum over the years. I talk about it some more in my response to "S." You're welcome to join that discussion.

[c***@yahoo.com]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Casaman

Post by j***@gmail.com
So a better question is: why do so few people choose to have their foreskins cut off?

It's not really a better question. As Uckister says, it's like asking why so few people choose to have other forms of cosmetic surgery. It's not that they would not like the result, of being slimmer or losing wrinkles or having more hair. They would surely like the result but they don't want to go through the cost and trouble of getting it done.If removing fat,foreskins, baldness and wrinkles could be accomplished painlessly in ten seconds for ten euros, a great many people would have it done! So there's really no mystery there.
The interesting question (to repeat it yet again!)is why so many peoples all over the world all through history should independently come to the conclusion that men are better off without foreskins. Bear in mind that for most of that time it must have been a painful experience as they had no anaesthetics. Also it must have been very dangerous as they had no antibiotics. In most peoples circumcision occurred in adolescence so the lads knew what it was like with and without a foresksin. Despite all the risks they cirucmcised their sons the same way generation after generation, always making cirucmcision the most common form of surgery on earth which it is even today. That is a very, very remarkable thing and it needs explanation.
"I asked Jack the very same question several months ago but he could not come up with an answer. He cannot give a straight reply because he would have to admit that societies dislike foreskins so much they want to cut them off....and that will lead inevitably to why they want to take this step....and that will lead to issues of smell and appearance and physical problems and disease....and Jack does not want to go there. So he will not answer our question...."

You seem to be looking for a short simple answer to a complicated question, a question which has been the subject of full-length books. You're right--I won't provide such a definitive answer as parker aka uckster ("It's gross.") but I've certainly talked about some of my thoughts on why people circumcise their children in this forum over the years. I talk about it some more in my response to "S." You're welcome to join that discussion.

And once again -- is this the tenth time? -- you have evaded the question, as you always will Jack.

[Parker]

Post by j***@gmail.com
You seem to be looking for a short simple answer to a complicated question

There IS a short simple answer which everybody knows but you don't have the honesty to admit, which is that foreskins are so unpopular because they are ugly, and they stink, and they get/spread diseases, and that's the reason circ is the most popular surgery in the world. Everybody knows why you won't answer the question. It's trapped you like a rat. Who do you think you are fooling?

Also everybody knows why you won't answer the question about the pain caused by all the foreskin diseases. You whine so much about pain of circ but you don't have the honesty it takes to admit all the other much greater pains.

Here's another question we can all watch you dodge!!! This is how many views the threads you started have got:

--- Narrated circ of newborn baby --- 288
--- Forced circ in the United States----127
----Histology ---12
----Brian Morris --42
----Labia and penises -- 39

Compare this with the topic about how foreskins stink even after washing -- 12,480 views

Tell us Jack why so many people are interested the stinking foreskin topic and hardly anybody in anything you have to say?

[S]

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
You seem to be looking for a short simple answer to a complicated question

There IS a short simple answer which everybody knows but you don't have the honesty to admit, which is that foreskins are so unpopular because they are ugly, and they stink, and they get/spread diseases, and that's the reason circ is the most popular surgery in the world. Everybody knows why you won't answer the question. It's trapped you like a rat. Who do you think you are fooling?
Also everybody knows why you won't answer the question about the pain caused by all the foreskin diseases. You whine so much about pain of circ but you don't have the honesty it takes to admit all the other much greater pains.
--- Narrated circ of newborn baby --- 288
--- Forced circ in the United States----127
----Histology ---12
----Brian Morris --42
----Labia and penises -- 39
Compare this with the topic about how foreskins stink eorsven after washing -- 12,480 views
Tell us Jack why so many people are interested the stinking foreskin topic and hardly anybody in anything you have to say?

Looks like the Canadian doctors will probably start recommending circ after the Mayo Clinic published a study in favour of circ.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Parker

Post by j***@gmail.com
You seem to be looking for a short simple answer to a complicated question

There IS a short simple answer which everybody knows but you don't have the honesty to admit, which is that foreskins are so unpopular because they are ugly, and they stink, and they get/spread diseases, and that's the reason circ is the most popular surgery in the world. Everybody knows why you won't answer the question. It's trapped you like a rat. Who do you think you are fooling?
Also everybody knows why you won't answer the question about the pain caused by all the foreskin diseases. You whine so much about pain of circ but you don't have the honesty it takes to admit all the other much greater pains.
--- Narrated circ of newborn baby --- 288
--- Forced circ in the United States----127
----Histology ---12
----Brian Morris --42
----Labia and penises -- 39
Compare this with the topic about how foreskins stink even after washing -- 12,480 views
Tell us Jack why so many people are interested the stinking foreskin topic and hardly anybody in anything you have to say?

People who are afraid of foreskin disease pain should go ahead and have some or all of their genitalia cut off.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?

Infants don't want penis surgery.

Jack I don't think you can answer the question and no doubt you will evade it once more but let me try again.
"Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"

Your premise that people want to have penis surgery is wrong: this is evidenced by the fact that so very few people choose to have it done. Something like one in a thousand uncircumcised men choose it.

It's forced on them in childhood. And since it's all they've ever known, they think it's normal.

If you want to talk about why parents have their children's genitals cut, that's a different question.

[Uckister777@....]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?

Infants don't want penis surgery.

Jack I don't think you can answer the question and no doubt you will evade it once more but let me try again.
"Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"

Your premise that people want to have penis surgery is wrong: this is evidenced by the fact that so very few people choose to have it done. Something like one in a thousand uncircumcised men choose it.
It's forced on them in childhood. And since it's all they've ever known, they think it's normal.
If you want to talk about why parents have their children's genitals cut, that's a different question.

EXACTLY as predicted, Jack can't even attempt to answer the question! LOL what a loser!

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?

Infants don't want penis surgery.

Jack I don't think you can answer the question and no doubt you will evade it once more but let me try again.
"Jack did you ever wonder WHY such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"

Your premise that people want to have penis surgery is wrong: this is evidenced by the fact that so very few people choose to have it done. Something like one in a thousand uncircumcised men choose it.
It's forced on them in childhood. And since it's all they've ever known, they think it's normal.
If you want to talk about why parents have their children's genitals cut, that's a different question.

EXACTLY as predicted, Jack can't even attempt to answer the question! LOL what a loser!

Do you really think grown men are clamoring to have penis surgery? Of course not. It was forced on you. And now you HAVE to like it.

[Uckister777@....]

Post by ***@....
EXACTLY as predicted, Jack can't even attempt to answer the question! LOL what a loser!

Do you really think grown men are clamoring to have penis surgery? Of course not. It was forced on >you. And now you HAVE to like it.

Uh huh. And meanwhile Jack, why can't you answer the question that you've evaded six times now by my count? Once again, the question is:

WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"

Still waiting.......

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ***@....

Post by ***@....
EXACTLY as predicted, Jack can't even attempt to answer the question! LOL what a loser!

Do you really think grown men are clamoring to have penis surgery? Of course not. It was forced on >you. And now you HAVE to like it.

WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
Still waiting.......

It depends who you're talking about. Jews and Muslims have historically used circumcision as a kind of branding of children as members of a religious and ethnic group.

In America circumcision began, primarily, as an attempt to curb masturbation and sexuality. Here is Kellogg's most famous quote: "Covering the organs with a cage has been practiced with entire success. A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anæsthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed. If any attempt is made to watch the child, he should be so carefully surrounded by vigilance that he cannot possibly transgress without detection. If he is only partially watched, he soon learns to elude observation, and thus the effect is only to make him cunning in his vice."

And the practice continues in America as way to make males sexually "normal" and as a class marker--having a whole penis is associated with lower classes and immigrants.

Of course,these reasons have become less and less palatable as society becomes more sensitive to bioethical issues, so a raft of pseudo-scientific excuses have been produced by elements of the medical profession--most of whom are either circumcised themselves or have subjected their own children to it, thereby making it impossible for them to be objective.

The obvious solution to the problem is to simply allow people to decide for themselves if they'd like any of their genitalia cut off. Again, when people have a choice, they overwhelmingly decide to keep all of their body parts.

[Uckisker777@....]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
Still waiting.......

It depends who you're talking about.

Can't you read? We are talking about peoples in ALL history in ALL parts of the world -- "So many peoples, so many countries, so many eras". For example, ancient Egypt, ancient meso America, modern Philippines, modern Korea, pagan tribes in central and southern Africa, christian communities in West Africa, islands throughout Melanesia etc etc...enough to make it the most common surgery throughout history.

It's a GENERAL question of what it is about foreskins that make so many peoples, so many countries, so many eras, want to cut them off.

You can't answer that question as has been proved six times at least so instead you give three (incorrect) answers about just three groups.

Post by j***@gmail.com
Jews and Muslims have historically used circumcision as a kind of branding of children as members of a religious and ethnic group.

Wrong.

Jews -- Almost all the peoples of the ancient middle east practiced circumcision except the Philistines. If Jews wanted to brand their children as members of their group they would have left them uncircumcised so that they appeared different. If you read the Bible you will see circumcision was a contract with God -- foreskins for the land of Israel. Jewish males are less than 0.1 percent of global population anyway so their case is insignificant. By the way what's your explanation for all the other ancient middle eastern peoples practicing circumcision?


Muslims -- Circumcision has never been about branding children as members of the group. It's not even mentioned in the Koran as a religious duty or anything else. For muslims it's about hygiene and only about hygiene. You don't want to admit that because you don't want to admit foreskins are inherently so filthy and smelly that people want go get rid of them.

Post by j***@gmail.com
In America circumcision began, primarily, as an attempt to curb masturbation and sexuality.
Don't try to confuse the issue -- the question isn't how you think it began, the question is why is it so popular. Circumcision was never common in the US until mid twentieth century and the main reason given then and since was hygiene. Circumcision got a big boost after WW2 when men who had been circumcised in the army came home and told others about it and insisted on circumcision for their sons. It's got subsequent boosts with a raft of studies showing it gives substantial protection against almost all STDs. Supposed origins in curbing masturbation are NOT the reason its so popular in the US today. It's popular because of considerations of hygiene and disease. Those are the reasons almost any US parent will give you. You don't want to admit that either but its a fact.

Still waiting to hear WHY circumcision is the most common surgery in the world throughout history. But we will never get an answer from you. You are too dishonest.

[Parker]

Still waiting to hear WHY circumcision is the most common surgery in the world throughout history. >But we will never get an answer from you. You are too dishonest.

Jack has been pulling the same style of debate here for years. It's classic alcoholic argument style, I've seen it hundreds of times from my 8 yrs as a bartender (my pub in Prindedale Rd London now closed and being converted to a gigantic mansion with basement pool for sale prob to a Russian oligarch). Basically they are self-centered arseholes. They take some dogmatic position and won't budge even when outgunned and cornered... .When that happens they fall back on the same tricks to evade evade evade. I've watched it so many times.
* ignore a question
* insult the opponent
* change the subject
* answer different questions that what's asked
* ask new questions and demand they get answered first
* evade evade evade but never admit you might be wrong

Jack was whining here about pain of circumcision as far back as 2009 and I asked him a question about pain a couple of times then but he couldn't answer. Here it is again:

What about pain from herpes and warts and all the STDs you are more likely to get with a foreskin?
What about the painful death from AIDS you are more likely to get with a foreskin?
What about the pain from phimosis or paraphimosis where the foreskin strangles your glans?
What about the pain from cervical cancer women are more likely to get from a man with a foreskin?
What about the pain being raised as an AIDS orphan because your daddy had a foreskin and got infected?
What about the pain from having your cock cut off from penile cancer or dying of it, because you have a foreskin?
What about the pain from UTIs and kidney failure that you are more likely to get with a foreskin?

I'm inviting Jack now to reply again. Watch out for a low, slimy, cowardly evasion!

[Casaman]

Post by Parker
What about pain from herpes and warts and all the STDs you are more likely to get with a foreskin?
What about the painful death from AIDS you are more likely to get with a foreskin?
What about the pain from phimosis or paraphimosis where the foreskin strangles your glans?
What about the pain from cervical cancer women are more likely to get from a man with a foreskin?
What about the pain being raised as an AIDS orphan because your daddy had a foreskin and got infected?
What about the pain from having your cock cut off from penile cancer or dying of it, because you have a foreskin?
What about the pain from UTIs and kidney failure that you are more likely to get with a foreskin?
I'm inviting Jack now to reply again. Watch out for a low, slimy, cowardly evasion!

It seems to me that you have asked a very legitimate question especially as Jack seems to base his position on pain of circumcision (including pain you do not consciously feel or remember because of anaesthetics). If he really cares about pain he will give a convcincing response. Unfortunately Jack takes this very absolutist position that will not acknowledge any foreskin problems and diseases..... so I predict he will avoid answering the question or just answer evasively. It has been three weeks and he has not tried to answer yet!

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ***@....

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
WHY has such a large part of humanity has always wanted to cut foreskins off? So many peoples, so many countries, so many different eras. WHY?"
Still waiting.......

It depends who you're talking about.

Can't you read? We are talking about peoples in ALL history in ALL parts of the world -- "So many peoples, so many countries, so many eras". For example, ancient Egypt, ancient meso America, modern Philippines, modern Korea, pagan tribes in central and southern Africa, christian communities in West Africa, islands throughout Melanesia etc etc...enough to make it the most common surgery throughout history.
It's a GENERAL question of what it is about foreskins that make so many peoples, so many countries, so many eras, want to cut them off.
You can't answer that question as has been proved six times at least so instead you give three (incorrect) answers about just three groups.

Post by j***@gmail.com
Jews and Muslims have historically used circumcision as a kind of branding of children as members of a religious and ethnic group.

Wrong.
Jews -- Almost all the peoples of the ancient middle east practiced circumcision except the Philistines. If Jews wanted to brand their children as members of their group they would have left them uncircumcised so that they appeared different. If you read the Bible you will see circumcision was a contract with God -- foreskins for the land of Israel. Jewish males are less than 0.1 percent of global population anyway so their case is insignificant. By the way what's your explanation for all the other ancient middle eastern peoples practicing circumcision?
Muslims -- Circumcision has never been about branding children as members of the group. It's not even mentioned in the Koran as a religious duty or anything else. For muslims it's about hygiene and only about hygiene. You don't want to admit that because you don't want to admit foreskins are inherently so filthy and smelly that people want go get rid of them.

Post by j***@gmail.com
In America circumcision began, primarily, as an attempt to curb masturbation and sexuality.
Don't try to confuse the issue -- the question isn't how you think it began, the question is why is it so popular. Circumcision was never common in the US until mid twentieth century and the main reason given then and since was hygiene. Circumcision got a big boost after WW2 when men who had been circumcised in the army came home and told others about it and insisted on circumcision for their sons. It's got subsequent boosts with a raft of studies showing it gives substantial protection against almost all STDs. Supposed origins in curbing masturbation are NOT the reason its so popular in the US today. It's popular because of considerations of hygiene and disease. Those are the reasons almost any US parent will give you. You don't want to admit that either but its a fact.

Still waiting to hear WHY circumcision is the most common surgery in the world throughout history. But we will never get an answer from you. You are too dishonest.

There's no reason for you to ask for my input.

[Uckister777@.....]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by ***@....
Still waiting to hear WHY circumcision is the most common surgery in the world throughout history. But we will never get an answer from you. You are too dishonest.

There's no reason for you to ask for my input.

Uh huh. As expected. Is this the sixth or seventh time you've been unable to answer the question?

[Casaman]

Post by j***@gmail.com
It depends who you're talking about. Jews and Muslims have historically used circumcision as a kind of branding of children as members of a religious and ethnic group.

I do not know about Jews, but for Muslims you are absolutely not correct. I have lived and worked in Muslim countries all my adult life and I assure you that for Mualims it is nothing to do with "branding". Circumcision is not even mentioned in the Koran. For Muslims it is a matter of physical cleanliness plain and simple. Any Muslim will tell you that. Muslims consider uncircumcised penises filthy and disgusting. That is why if a non Muslim wants to marry a Muslim woman, he is required to get circumcised first so she is not contaminated.

Post by j***@gmail.com
a raft of pseudo-scientific excuses have been produced by elements of the medical profession--most of whom are either circumcised themselves or have subjected their own children to it, thereby making it impossible for them to be objective.

Surely you are not suggesting that all the research on foreskins and various diseases like AIDS is pseudo scientific? Good lord I hope not! Anyway by your reasoning, researchers who are not circumcised or have not subjected their children to it would equally find it impossible to be objective, though on the opposite side.

[Almendros]

Post by j***@gmail.com
Do you really think grown men are clamoring to have penis surgery? Of course not.

Sure they are! In Africa where there are programs to give free painless circumcision to adults, MILLIONS have jumped at the chance! The big problem there is lack of funding to provide the facilities otherwise there would be much more circumcision to meet the demand.

[a***@gmail.com]

Females are circumcised without anaesthesia around age 7. Their clitoris and labia minora and majora are cut off with the same dirty dull tools they use on the other girls causing infections such as HIV. (Yes, some of these young girls have HIV not because they are "running around having sex" but because men...even male family members rape them.) The labia are then sewn together with an old dull needle leaving a small hole for urine and menstruation. Their legs are then bound together for a month. Some die from bleeding while others die from infection. Having this done without anaesthetic requires a number of people to hold her down and leaves life long emotional scars since it isn't done as a baby like the boys are. A male circumcision is like a day in the park compared to what the girls go through. Later in life they have to be cut open with a knife so their husbands can have sex with them. It is not uncommon for mothers and babies to die during childbirth because of problems stemming from their mutilated genitals. Would you like a daughter or sister of yours go thorough this torture now that you know more about it?

[a***@gmail.com]

Females are circumcised without anaesthesia around age 7. Their clitoris and labia minora and majora are cut off with the same dirty dull tools they use on the other girls causing infections such as HIV. (Yes, some of these young girls have HIV not because they are "running around having sex" but because men...even male family members rape them.) The labia are then sewn together with an old dull needle leaving a small hole for urine and menstruation. Their legs are then bound together for a month. Some die from bleeding while others die from infection. Having this done without anaesthetic requires a number of people to hold her down and leaves life long emotional scars since it isn't done as a baby like the boys are. A male circumcision is like a day in the park compared to what the girls go through. Later in life they have to be cut open with a knife so their husbands can have sex with them. It is not uncommon for mothers and babies to die during childbirth because of problems stemming from their mutilated genitals. Would you like a daughter or sister of yours go thorough this torture now that you know more about it?